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My attempts learn about the Pleasurama project have lead me into a dialogue with Thanet District Council about their website and the way they pass on correspondence to councillors. Click on the links above to read the correspondence.

Ken Gregory
Dear Ken please accept my humble apologies but I am afraid I cant find an email from you to my last email. I have published all of the correspondence between us that I can find at http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/tdc/id31.htm when you read it looks as though some of it is missing so please resend any I didn't receive, I can't find anywhere where I said that councillor Harrison  was the only one to respond if you can let me know where I have I will put a correction. Best regards Michael



Subject:
Your councillors responses,
Date:
17/04/2007 19:22:16 GMT Standard Time
From:

Michael,
I think you do me a disservice, I have responded to your mails, and to say that Mike Harrison is the only councillor to respond is a little inaccurate
Ken Gregory



Subject:
Re: Pleasurama
Date:
30/01/2007 13:18:18 GMT Standard Time
From:


Michael,
You make too many assumptions,
My comment was specifically directed at your reference to John Smeaton, and in no way was I agreeing, or disagreeing, with any other part of your email.
Regards
Ken
ps if you publish the first email, please add this one!

Subject:
Re: Planning
Date:
30/11/2004 17:23:10 GMT Standard Time
From:
Subject:
Planning
Date:
30/11/2004 15:25:11 GMT Standard Time
From:

Dear Mr Child.
Whilst I find your exchange of emails very interesting, as a member of the planning committee I will have to declare them as lobbying under the accepted code of conduct. I do hope you will not be offended by my doing so
Ken Gregory

In a message dated 30/01/2007 13:18:18 GMT Standard Time, AGreg115 writes:
Michael,
You make too many assumptions,
My comment was specifically directed at your reference to John Smeaton, and in no way was I agreeing, or disagreeing, with any other part of your email.
Regards
Ken
ps if you publish the first email, please add this one!
Michael,
You make too many assumptions,
My comment was specifically directed at your reference to John Smeaton, and in no way was I agreeing, or disagreeing, with any other part of your email.
Regards
Ken
ps if you publish the first email, please add this one!
Ken I published Smeatons account of the opening of the dry dock while I was waiting to see if you replied. http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/Smeaton/ his diplomacy is charming the quality and incisiveness of what after all only an engineers report shines through after 200 years.
I really have you know been very restrained in the way I have handled this issue. I could for instance have published your views on the subject that we discussed on the phone. I have refrained from publishing the emails where the councillors were just stupid and insulting. I refrained from generating emails that appeared to emanate from other councillors something I am quite able to do. John Kirby came and harangued me in the shop and I could have published the video from our camera system.
You really can't expect me to sit idly by while an architect who has shown himself to be incompetent - for gods sake man, all three sets of plans are on the government website - including the ones that have elevations lower than the sections, submits plans where the building is 1.5 meters below a 20 year old flood line.  Its not a toy that's proposed here it's the largest development ever built in the town where I live. What do you think people are going to say about you all when the cars in the car park are all destroyed or worse if some of the children in the crèche drown? It cant be the legacy your administration wants to leave the for the future. Ask yourself the question the ancients judged themselves by. What are you drinking the water of the wave?
Really some coherent reply is called for, if you want time to prepare it, while I withhold this email from publication; you only have to tell me. I reiterate the inference that you neither know nor care looks very damaging, whereas a few straight answers and don't knows' shows everyone in a far better light.
My sincere and kind regards Michael Child.

Subject:
Re: Planning
Date:
01/12/2004
To:

Cll Gregory Am I missing something here the planning meeting has happened planning permission has been granted.
My problem is that the planning committee has granted planning permission for a building where the planning documents are contradictory, this has lead to a situation where cabinet members councillors and council employees have mislead me, the other citizens they represent and the press.
As the facts placed before you were wrong you may be concerned that the decision you made was wrong.
Is it a matter of propriety or competence?
Michael
In a message dated 30/11/2004 17:23:10 GMT Standard Time, AGreg115 writes:
Mr Child,
As a member of the planning committee I must not express a view on any application, prior to the planning meeting where it will be determined, and on that occasion I must make up my mind on that application only after hearing the facts placed before me, and the other members of the committee.
In addition, I must declare if I have been lobbied, either for or against, to ensure that no one could construe that I had been 'nobbled' or intimidated prior to the meeting.
I hope this sets your mind at rest as to the propriety of the planning committee in Thanet
Ken Gregory

Subject:
Re: Planning
Date:
30/11/2004
To:

In a message dated 30/11/2004 15:25:11 GMT Standard Time, AGreg115 writes:
Dear Mr Child.
Whilst I find your exchange of emails very interesting, as a member of the planning committee I will have to declare them as lobbying under the accepted code of conduct. I do hope you will not be offended by my doing so
Ken Gregory
Dear Cllr Gregory
No offence taken. However it would be helpful if you tell me what you mean in layman's terms.
I am afraid until I discovered that I would be unlikely to be able to see the horizon where I normally sit on the cliff top and eat my sandwiches at lunchtime in the summer, I took very little interest in local politics.
All the best Michael

Subject:
(no subject)
Date:
20/04/2004

Dear Cllr Gregory
I am sorry this is rather a long and complicated email written while juggling time between two two year old children and working.

I work in a shop in Ramsgate; recently a lot of the customers have been asking what is happening with Ramsgate sea front.
I decided last week to write to all of the councillors to find out the situation relating to the old Pleasurama site.
The first few emails produced some fairly contradictory replies.
So I have published them at http://www.thanetonline.com/pleasurama/ so that people can read them for themselves.

It seemed to me that a lot of local people, regardless of which part of Thanet they lived in used Ramsgate town and seafront and in view of the recent full council meeting effectively reversing the decision on the new seafront development were prepared to make their views known to their councillors.

It would also seem that the local leisure facilities will be an important factor in future local elections so it would be helpful to discover where councillors stood on this issue.

I decided that I would re-think the question and ask all of the councillors what their position is on leisure facilities in Ramsgate. This is partly because the Pleasurama site was the main family leisure facility on the seafront and partly because of Ramsgate beaches status as one of the best in the UK.

Since the original proposals submitted for redevelopment by STF which they presumably considered economic the property values of seafront apartments in Ramsgate have more than doubled in value. This would mean an increase in the profit made from the project of about £30,000,000 presumably sufficient to finance appropriate beach leisure facilities (swimming pool ice rink etc.)


You may be aware of various initiatives that relate to leisure facilities in Ramsgate in the past, these include:
The demolition of the marina swimming pool;
The demolition of the adjacent Victorian theatre;
The removal of the majority of the beach for port building materials;
The rejection of the sea life centre,
The closing of the royal Victoria pavilion sun deck,
The efforts to provide the world war 2 museum in the tunnel.
The concreting over of most of the parking on the sea front
The closing of the model village
The removal of the tourist information centre to where tourists are unlikely to find it
The removal of all the beach huts.

The result is that the main seafront area that was the main leisure area of the town has somehow become a leisure free zone and although a large amount of what were leisure areas have tuned into car parks the amount of available parking on the seafront has now decreased.

The remaining leisure facilities in the town and seafront area are mostly bars and restaurants some of the public buildings in the area are disused or partly disused, like the customs house and the pavilion.

The reduction of parking, both on street and available car parks at a level that would seem more appropriate to a busy resort town with a park and ride scheme have combined with the lack of leisure facilities to produce the worst rental return on High Street shops in southern England with many empty and derelict buildings.

There is a genuine feeling of lack of consultation over major projects in the town. This could be partly resolved by displaying plans and artists impressions in the shop window of the town partnership.

I look forward to your comments.
Kind regards Michael child.
Please reply by email to michaelchild@aol.com

Subject:
(no subject)
Date:
14/02/2004





Hello
I run the bookshop in Ramsgate and live over the top of it, I also write the thanetonline.com website during the last couple of weeks a large proportion of my customers have been talking about the plans for the redevelopment of the old Pleasureama site.
My family has lived in Thanet since 1966 and none of us can remember any local issue producing such strong feelings among local people.
The general feeling in the town seems to one of amazement. Mainly because of the height and the lack of public consultation in Ramsgate.
I wonder could you tell me your position on this issue, it is my intention to publicise this information.
Kind regards Michael Child.



In a message dated 30/01/2007 13:18:18 GMT Standard Time, AGreg115 writes:
Michael,
You make too many assumptions,
My comment was specifically directed at your reference to John Smeaton, and in no way was I agreeing, or disagreeing, with any other part of your email.
Regards
Ken
ps if you publish the first email, please add this one!
Michael,
You make too many assumptions,
My comment was specifically directed at your reference to John Smeaton, and in no way was I agreeing, or disagreeing, with any other part of your email.
Regards
Ken
ps if you publish the first email, please add this one!
Ken I published Smeatons account of the opening of the dry dock while I was waiting to see if you replied. http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/Smeaton/ his diplomacy is charming the quality and incisiveness of what after all only an engineers report shines through after 200 years.
I really have you know been very restrained in the way I have handled this issue. I could for instance have published your views on the subject that we discussed on the phone. I have refrained from publishing the emails where the councillors were just stupid and insulting. I refrained from generating emails that appeared to emanate from other councillors something I am quite able to do. John Kirby came and harangued me in the shop and I could have published the video from our camera system.
You really can't expect me to sit idly by while an architect who has shown himself to be incompetent - for gods sake man, all three sets of plans are on the government website - including the ones that have elevations lower than the sections, submits plans where the building is 1.5 meters below a 20 year old flood line.  Its not a toy that's proposed here it's the largest development ever built in the town where I live. What do you think people are going to say about you all when the cars in the car park are all destroyed or worse if some of the children in the crèche drown? It cant be the legacy your administration wants to leave the for the future. Ask yourself the question the ancients judged themselves by. What are you drinking the water of the wave?
Really some coherent reply is called for, if you want time to prepare it, while I withhold this email from publication; you only have to tell me. I reiterate the inference that you neither know nor care looks very damaging, whereas a few straight answers and don't knows' shows everyone in a far better light.
My sincere and kind regards Michael Child.
Subj:
Re: Pleasurama
Date:
30/01/2007 13:27:14 GMT Standard Time
From:
To:



Ken I have always assumed you to be one of our more able councillors and would be perfectly happy to wait until you have prepared a more detailed account of the things that you feel I have got wrong, if you would like this please let me know and how long you would like. All the best Michael


Hello Mr Child,

Just a comment on your Email.

Your reference to John Smeaton is a little cavalier as this was the same John Smeaton, I believe, who designed and constructed Winchelsea Harbour at what is now Winchelsea Beach in East Sussex.

This harbour silted up within 6 months of construction, due to bad design, and is now a playing field, Though to be fair, the original village now lies some 500 metres off shore below several fathoms of the English Channel.

Regards,

Ken Gregory



Dear Mr Gregory

It is both pleasant and reassuring to find that one of the councillors has a common interest in engineering. As I pointed out the design and building of bridges and harbours were at the cutting edge of new technology in the 1700s. As with space exploration today many things were uncertain, large expenditure often resulted in failure or only partial success. Indeed it is probable that had Mr Labelye (who lobbied parliament for a harbour near the downs and proposed a scheme for building a canal between Sandwich and the coast) not been otherwise engaged due to problems when Westminster bridge, a construction under his direction that partly sank and had to have considerable rebuilding, the harbour would probably have been built at Sandwich.
At this time it should be noted that the inhabitants of Sandwich, then the main town in this area and once the main port (which had silted up and been left stranded inland), wanted the revenue of any new harbour. They strove against the building of a harbour at Ramsgate and tried repeatedly to get parliament to fund various projects that would once again make Sandwich a major port.

Ramsgate, as a limb of the Cinque Port of Sandwich, was in fact governed by Sandwich the town which was Ramsgate's main rival, something that we are used to even now.

Smeaton was one of the more successful of the engineers of this period his lighthouse being one of the most successful saving many lives.

I was the other day discussing, with a few old boating friends of mine, the last time a combination of wind and tide flooded the front part of Pleasurama we concluded it was about 20 years ago but couldn't remember exactly. Fortunately there was no storm at the time so only the carpet was damaged.

As I believe you to be probably the only person in TDC whose other work means that he is familiar with architectural drawings, do you concur with me that the floor level of the new building will be 1.5 meters below this level. In the circumstances it is probably as well that we won't be allowed to use the car park.

As you didn't ask me not to I will publish your reply. I am assuming that as you haven't mentioned anything wrong with my introduction to the site, you consider it to be broadly accurate.

Kind regards Michael